27 April 2014

Weekly round up - 27/04/2014 - Shows, ECW and a good old Rant

I will begin this week by helping out a fellow wargamer and blogger who is a member of Milton Hundred Wargames Club unfortunately their advertisement should have been placed in this months Miniature wargames but things went badly wrong and the advert failed to appear so I offered to give it a shout in this regular weekly column.
Next I bring would like to bring your attention to some figures my partner in crime Kevin at Brigantes Studio has been working on. Click the picture and it will open a new window in our joint blog.
The week ahead is going to be a very busy one as I try to get two commissions wrapped up to be able to concentrate solely on the Warbases items in preparation for Sheffield Triples.


RANT ALERT!!!!!!!!!

Unusually for me I have been interested in a debate on the TMP pages after the subject was raised by several other fellow bloggers. In fact its been over three years since I last visited the hostile forum but!!! You see one of my real pet peeves in this hobby is being blatantly ripped off for something, then that gets defended with a pile of horse shit that is akin to truthful politicians and their expenses claims lately!!!
The latest pile of rubbish comes in the form of Warlord games and its repackaging of Italeri 1/72nd scale walls that have been out for years, just not in a fancy new warlord branded box and at a far cheaper cost than the inflation busting almost 100% mark up Warlord offers its loyal customers!!!

This is what the company posted in response to some criticism on TMP.

Gents,
Look at the images of our 28mm miniatures with the plastic walls. They look spot on heightwise to me and, as already stated above, that's without any base for the walls themselves. Yes, these are also being sold as 1/72 scale walls by our partner, Italer, but- we feel they are a tad big for 20mm games but as with all things in our great hobby it is a matter of personal taste and your freedom to choose.
As you know, stone walls don't come in just one height, but in many. Do you want your troops to be able to fire over the walls or have no line of sight at all? At a comparable height of about 4 feet for a game played with 28mm miniatures I would suggest this is very similar to any of the stone walls dotted around England and doubtless other areas of the world where such things can be found.
These are the same price as the set sold by Italeri so no price hike at all. Over 4 feet of stone walls for just £14.00 GBP? I suggest that is more than a fair price for something that won't be easily damaged, doesn't weigh much and will surely enhance your terrain collection for a wide variety of periods.
I cannot vouch for Amazon of course – they are happy with their meagre profit margins and rely on the customer to think of their own pockets rather than that of helping support the manufacturer or local gaming store. We always hear a lot about gamers showing a lot of loyalty and solidarity with their local gaming store but what about the initial link in the chain – the manufacturer? Purchasing from Amazon and other deep discounting options isn't helping the store owner or the manufacturer who is investing in producing those very same products in the first place…
Cheers,
Paul


Now firstly one has to make a couple of observations about this statement!! 

1. Of course they would look OK height wise to you or you would not be trying to sell them to us. Your own admission we think they are a tad big for 20mm reinforces that fact. However you confirm they are manufactured as 1/72nd scale and not 28mm and these are only your opinions or thoughts and not actual facts! What clever angles were the images taken at to get them looking correct?

3. Yes I am aware walls differ in heights, but as far as I am aware it still means they are not 28mm scale as stated on the box. So the whole England's walls bit is really a poor attempt at spin doctoring is it not?

4. They are not the same price as the Italeri set you charge £14.00 and even at full retail Italeri only charge 10.50 euros (£8.65) how is that the same price or a fair price? or did you just feck up maths at school completely and really should not be in a business at all if you cant count?

4. Why would I consider the weight of the plastic as a viable way to make my purchase I want to make my purchases on cold hard facts and the Ronseal Factor "they do exactly what they say on the box"?, whereas relabelling a product designed at one scale as another is a bit misleading and inaccurate.

5. Many customers in the current financial climate think about how much they are spending. In fact in these days of the internet we are able to shop around far easier and more freely than ever. By making a purchase of the normal Italeri set we are supporting the manufacturer directly and if we go to the local hobby shop and purchase the same we are supporting them, but please do not assume we are so stupid as to pay twice the price for a bit of flash cardboard because you say that is how we should support the hobby!!

Right so I have ranted a touch here so lets give some hard facts then we can all judge for ourselves if Warlord are getting their facts right.

Warlord set contains two sprues with 53.5 inches of walling. Italeri set contains 2 sprues with funnily enough 53.5 inches of walls. Both sets of walls from either box come in at 19mm height.

Now I don't know about the rest of you but my figure bases are 2mm thick so that leaves 17mm for the walls to cover if they are not based themselves. So where does that leave the walls final height well unfortunately for my 28mm figures thats the bollocks literally!! To prove this point I went to the trouble of getting a laser cut MDF section exactly 19mm high to take the above picture.The Napoleonic figures are on my normal bases and the MDF acts as a wall section without a base.
However they are excellent for my 20mm figures if the walls remain unbased they come to chest height of my units and look a lot more sensible as cover!!

So in my humble opinion they are certainly not 28mm scale walls from what I have shown, but do not get me wrong the product is a good one and well made my issue is the one of scale and the general gaming public being aware of the facts and options before purchasing these! I would highly recommend anyone wanting them to shop around and make a purchase of the normal Italeri version and save themselves a few quid!!

Now I wanted to finish this post on a cheery note so have left the welcoming of my latest followers till last so it's welcome aboard to Ronin Rumbler and Robbie3Rodiss, I hope you find something to keep your interest among my ramblings.

Have a great week ahead folks I will as we have Spring Blog con at the end of this one.

Regards
Loki

34 comments:

  1. You two are doing a cracking job on your figures. Nice work on these gents as well.

    Lovely of you to put the poster up for Broadside Andrew!

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    1. Thanks Anne, we are working hard to get the business up to speed

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  2. Damn good well reasoned rant my friend, I'll help out Alan as well!

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    1. Thank you my friend, I am sure with a little help we can alert many to the errors and help others out

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  3. The sad fact is people will buy them, the company makes a profit on them, decisions are make that it is more profitable to re-brand others stuff as their own, more money is made for them. I for one will not be buying them.

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    1. I dont mind them making a profit, but I object to the underhand way they are trying to achieve it

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  4. It's the usual round robin shaft-a-thon. Not sure the scale thing is all that important but the markup seems massively steep. The worrying thing is that I suspect that this is their normal mark-up.

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    1. The scale thing is a massive point for me personally, I like my tables to be well dressed and right for the scale of figures used. I know its not a major issue for some but to me it is falsely advertising the product as something it was not designed to be

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  5. Nice figures. I have just signed up for the other blog.
    On the wall thing, it's a clever ruse by Warlord but now that it's been pointed out on numerous channels I believe it's not going to work as well as they planned.

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    1. Thanks Andras, Like I have mentioned I dont object to them making money no point in being in business otherwise but its their tone I dislike most

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  6. Thanks Loki, I was thinking of buying hem as I am looking for some walls for my normandy set up in 20mm. The 4Ground 1/72 are too short as I want the wall to have no LOS. I was just looking at the 28mm 4-Ground but no height is noted on the website.

    I really wish manufacturers would put down dimensions. That is my rant!

    John

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  7. Warning: touched a nerve so I'll give a small rant too.:-)

    You are of course correct. They could of at the very least advertised it as low walls for 28mm instead giving a bunch of bs about their use and if they want to rip off...err charge more then that is fine as it's capitalism folks which I happily support, but whining about needing charity support to increase their profits is a joke. Sadly, Warlord is doing a lot of things GW like as of late that I don't like(of course not nearly as bad). For example I thought their Caesarian plastic Romans looked nice until I looked at the price of 20pounds for 24 plastic figures which is absurd IMHO. If others pay it then more power to Warlord, but please do not feed me bs about why they charge more. I can well enough judge for myself what is and what isn't a fair price so I don't need a song and dance from them. However, false advertisement is a whole different thing and a big no no in my book. It's fine to show a product in it's best light, but if and I mean if photo's are being taken to outright fool customers then that is shameful practice.

    However, Warlord isn't the only ones ripping off customers lately as I've seen some other companies with pretty ludicrous prices on thin rule books, dice, a couple miniatures in a fancy box and pieces of wood jacked up equal to or more then resin(not Warbases btw). Anyhow, it's a free market like I said so if they make a profit then great, but I won't accept misleading or false advertisement or feel sorry for me excuses.

    Christopher

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    1. I dont object to them making money, its their approach and the condescending tone I disapprove of very strongly. I too have baulked at the cost of their plastics in my case Napoleonic Vistula. The false advertising does not enhance the reputation at all.

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  8. Great rant Andrew! I had been altered to this by Legatus and couldn't believe what I was reading.

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    1. Its a sad state of affairs really Michael

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  9. Love the Kings Lifeguard!

    Nothing worse than being BS'd like that so your rant is spot on.

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    1. Cheers Monty.

      No BS! here I always tell it straight, though it does land me in bother from time to time as some folks dont like the truth when its spelt out bluntly

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  10. I seem to remember Broadside having issues every year with their advert in MW not appearing in the correct issue. Maybe one of the organisers needs to buttonhole Henry Hyde at the show and ask him to look into what the problem is.

    As for the rant, it's fully justified in my opinion. Warlord haven't done themselves any favours with this stunt.

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    1. Thanks Tamsin, it is not the brightest move I have seen from Warlord

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  11. Thanks for the Broadside plug.
    The Rant seems justified but as GW have opened that door with there pricing policy I feel that younger gamers will be sucked in as they don't know any better having been spoon-fed GW party line.

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    1. No problem plugging at all Clint.
      Its not the pricing I object too its the misrepresentation of the product, something despite its expense GW does not do!

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  12. Fully justified rant! Kinda takes the piss really! I wouldn't use them for 28mm they're just too small??? Well done on the Broadside advert!!!!

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    1. My thoughts exactly, I want cover and more than my toys knackers behind the wall!!!

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  13. While the heighth looks acceptable to me for a waist high enclosure especially if in stone, repackaging and doubling the price is unacceptable. We must all band together to wring imperfect information out of the system so hobbyists can make better decisions.

    Rant on, Andrew!

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    1. Well its thigh high and some compromise in certain situations may be acceptable, but the misrepresentation is not which ever way they cut this they are 20mm walls

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  14. Good rant and most justified I believe!

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  15. Well said mate. And lovely figures!

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  16. Love the way they have a go at Amazon for not supporting local gaming stores while their own books are being sold through Amazon in Kindle format at 60% less than the recommended price for a hard copy.

    That's called hypocrisy round my part of the world.

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    1. I know the reply has more holes than Swiss cheese!

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  17. Warlord don't have to sell through Amazon. If they do sell to them I assume they are making a profit - albeit a smaller wholesale profit. If they are selling at a loss that looks like a poor business plan.

    What Amazon do is then up to Amazon.

    Suggesting gamers are 'traitors' by not buying from Warlord direct is rather counterproductive. What next ? Banning the sale of second hand figures on eBay and suggesting that those that do are somehow not proper gamers?

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    1. It is certainly not a good idea to treat its customers in such a way as this and may prove counter productive if it continues !!

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